Just devistated...female Russian is dead

[mom2twinsplus2]

Title says it all. I am so, so, so sad and in shock. We just got these two Russian a few weeks ago but they seemed to be the fastest acclimated reptiles I have ever gotten. They came out of the shipping box eating well and alert and active. They were the only two WC reptiles I have had...I don't really love getting WC creatures but I loved the person I got them from and they were LTC which he had for more than 6 months. I did notice that their food comsumption was way down the last few days and that the male was much faster to the food bowl than the female..but she was getting there and I saw her eating so I wasn't too worried. The male is a VERY enthusiastic eater so her not being up to his standards didn't frighten me though obviously it should have.

I don't know what to do now...should I take her remains to the vet to try to figure out what might have happened or should I take the male to the vet to be sure he is OK or....

The kids are so sad. They really loved these tortoises so much.

RIP Mindy...I am so sorry if I did something not right by you...

Alison<br><br>Post edited by: mom2twinsplus2, at: 2010/02/13 19:59

[TurtleGal]

I am so sorry to hear about loosing her. Thats always tough. If it was me(and I had the funding at the time) I would DEFINITELY take the male to the vet at the bare minimum for fecal exam & blood work if possible to ensure that he was healthy. I would also take the female for a necropsy to try and figure out what she passed away from.

[mom2twinsplus2]

I spoke to the seller I got the tortoises from and he doesn't really think that necroscopies are all that useful..he says they are often inconclusive and very expensive. I think I am going to skip that but I am going to take the male to the vet to see what is up with him. I have been feeling so nervous today and really checking out the male super carefully and I noticed that one of his eyes seems to be more open than the other...we are not sure if the more open eye is the "normal" one or if it is slightly bugged out but one eye looks bigger and the other seems to have more skin around it. They are definitely not the same. I tried to google it but nothing is coming up for me...the seller recommends just wiping off his face with a towel but that doesn't seem like a big enough thing to do to me so the vet it will be.

The seller offered me a new female tortoise for shipping and my kids really want to do that...but I think we are going to wait a month or so at least and see how the guy we have now does. These torts are the only thing in my house that are WC and I am just not sure I want to have any more WC stuff here...I don't feel as good about it as I do with the CB and now with a death...I don't know. I wouldn't have thought they should still have parasite issues or anything since the seller had them already for 6 months but I guess you never know. I went over my temps and conditions with the seller and everything seems like it should have been OK on this end...

Ugh...what a crappy day today was...hopefully tomorrow will be better.

Alison

[jacqturtle]

From the reports I have heard, usually it seems they really don't learn anything useful from the necropsy. Of course people tend to tell only the negative outcomes, not so with sharing positive testing information.

I really highly doubt that her having been a wild caught had much to do with her death. I also want you to quit blaming yourself. How often have you heard about humans who were very healthy, active and young who fell over dead from an unknown heath defect...such as a defective heart? Unexpected and unpreventable things happen every day, death is just part of the cycle of life.

I would without a doubt, be closely watching the male. If a trip to the vet with him will make you feel better, then by all means do so.

I want to applaud your seller. Very impressive that he is offering to replace the animal after this amount of time.

As for getting another one, I think that is the way to go. Wait, if it will make you feel better or go for it now (tho it's a bad time for shipping). Even with this new one coming from the same place, you really do need to do at least a month of quarantine before putting her in with your male. That would be true, even if the first female had not died.

Always always quarantine when bringing new animals into your home. Not just separate housing, but different rooms if possible and much proper hand washing between areas and no sharing of dishes, ect.., Best to leave the new animal(s) for last as an added precaution.

I am sorry this happened to you and your family. It's the bad part of having critters sharing your home and heart. Sadly for us, it's even worse then having a long term sick animal die. We are faced then with so many more self doubts and questions. However, at least she did not have time to suffer much, if at all. Tortoises, like all reptiles, are masters at hiding their illness. In the wild, a sick or injured animal, becomes a bigger target for bullies and predators so to survive they learned to hide any and all signs for as long as possible. Bad thing is, it hurts their chances of us humans being able to help them.

[mom2twinsplus2]

I am very worried about the male now...yesterday I gave him a soak and checked him over carefully and I noticed that one eye was open fully while one looked smaller like it has a bit more skin on top...we weren't even sure yesterday which eye is the "normal" one. Today the less open eye is even more closed. The vet is closed today...hopefully he will be open tomorrow with the holiday.

I know this is the risk with having so many creatures but I really, really hate it. I am reading through care sheets like crazy and trying to figure out if there is anything I might be doing that could be stressing them out too much.

Mork is still eating well though so that is good and he is moving around a lot.

Alison

[jacqturtle]

Let's start with going over exactly how your keeping him, ok?

[mom2twinsplus2]

Sure..been over it with the seller but I would love another set of ears.

He is in a 4 by 2 oval tub with a light over a the basking spot angled over the whole tub. Room temp is 72 in his room. Basking spot is a tile and measures 94 degrees over most the tile...a little hotter in one weird spot. Air on hot side is 84 and air on cool side is 75. Bedding is a coconut bark which is what the seller used...he sent me a sample of what he used and what I have matches quite closely. Bedding is about 3 inches deep all across the tub with a deeper spot maybe 7 inches deep on the cold side which is dampened. He has a shoe box hide over the moist spot on the cool side. There is currently no hide on the warm side...he has had one on and off but I can't decide what to do with it...it seems to cover too much of the basking spot a lot of the time and I can't decide what to do with it. I bought a 6 inch by 12 inch piece of wood and some PVC to make legs for it so I think I am going to make him a hide for the warm side with that but I can't decide if she should go over the bedding or over the tile. He is very active and spends some time buried in the deep moist spot, some basking on the tile and some partially buried on the warm side in the bedding.

FWIW, I hate the bedding...it is a big PITA to clean the pee out of the bedding...the poop is not bad but the pee is a mess. I try to go with what the animal is used to when I get a new creature but I am definitely open to other suggestion especially if it is possible that this stuff is irritating his eye.

Alison

[mom2twinsplus2]

Just an update...I took Mork (my male tort) to the vet yesterday. Overally, the vet thought he looked great but he agreed that his eye looked "weepy". He said that it was a sign of a respitory infection that was very common in shipped/stressed torts and he suspects that this is what the female had that killed her. I have to give my poor sweet tortoise an injection a day for the next 13 days...he taught me how to do it. Here goes another thing I thought I would never do onto my list of things I have done. The vet thought my conditions for him sounded perfect but that I should maybe keep his cage just a hair warmer at night. I had it going down to about 72 (room temp) at night but he said mid to high 70's would be better. I will just use low wattage ceramic or red/blue bulbs for both my uro's and my torts at night I guess to keep it a bit warmer. I don't have two bulbs to do that right now so I just turned up the room temp-LOL!

Anyhow, that is my update...I am feeling more optomistic now about his chances to survive. It is such a great dude, I hope he will be OK. The kids really miss Mindy so much.

Alison

[jacqturtle]

I hope the vet is correct, I don't fully agree with him, but hey he's the vet.

[mom2twinsplus2]

What don't you agree with Jacq? I didn't fully agree with my last reptile vet so this guy was a switch to a new reptile vet who is highly regarded from what I can tell locally at least. What concerns do you have about what I have posted?

Alison